Don’t jump the gun on the Montero-Pineda trade just yet
Shortly after Michael Pineda ended his miserable 2.2 innings against the Phillies, Yankees fans were horrified to learn that he had been pitching with a sore right shoulder. After taking an MRI yesterday morning, Pineda has been diagnosed with tendinitis and is now on the 15-Day DL. This unfortunate turn of events eliminates Pineda’s chances of starting the regular season in the Yankees’ MLB rotation. The Yankees will now fill the rotation with Phil Hughes, Ivan Nova, and Freddy Garcia behind C.C. Sabathia and Hiroki Kuroda. This injury comes on the heels of a substantial amount of scrutiny over Pineda’s low velocity, and many share the opinion that Pineda just hasn’t looked right all spring.
Although the team is yet to play one game of regular season ball, the trade of Montero for Pineda is already being called a disaster by some. The Yankees undoubtedly gave up quite a lot for Michael Pineda and Jose Campos, losing an absolute stud of a hitter in Montero and a nice pitching piece in Hector Noesi. Montero has looked excellent thus far for the Mariners with a .306/.366/.556 line in Spring Training to this point. In 5 IP, Noesi has a 1.80 ERA and has held opponents to a .176 BAA. Meanwhile, Michael Pineda’s has an ERA of 5.68 and a .324 BAA, and both his velocity and control have been sub-par (4.74 BB/9).
As grim as it looks for Pineda heading into the 2012 regular season, is it really already time to abandon all hopes for the trade to be a success? Some fans think the answer to that question is yes.
However, by already describing the trade with words like “disaster” and “apocalyptic” based on the very short time Michael Pineda has been a Yankee, I think many fans are jumping the gun much too soon. When evaluating a trade, it is extremely important to remember that every deal is a two-sided deal. While it is certainly a possibility that Michael Pineda might not live up to expectations placed on him, the same is just as true with Jesus Montero. When Brian Cashman and Mariners’ GM Jack Zduriencik agreed to the blockbuster trade, they both accepted a substantial amount of risk. Pineda might never become the #1 starter that many think he can be, and Montero might never become the Miguel Cabrera-like hitter that he is supposed to become. While this is merely looking at hypotheticals, there is one thing that is known for sure in the case of both players. There is a tremendous amount of time for each player to proove the trade good or bad for his respective team.
Calling the trade a disaster now is fundamentally ignoring what Pineda could potentially bring in the future. Although it’s hard to envision his potential now because of the low velocity, control problems, and coming to camp fairly overweight, it’s important not to ignore that Pineda is some very hard work and development away from becoming one of the top pitchers in baseball. Might the trade be a detriment to the team this year? Absolutely – especially if Pineda’s injury lasts longer than expected or he pitches poorly in the regular season while Montero is mashing out there in the Pacific Northwest. However, the trade was more of a trade for the future than a trade for the present. The Yankees can afford to develop Pineda as slowly and steadily as they want simply because he is still very young and extremely cheap. More importantly, having Pineda on the team for the next half-decade allows the Yankees to devote the bulk of their financial resources to the offense, rather than shelling out expensive, high-risk contracts to the top starting pitchers of the future free agent markets.
The bottom line is that there is so much more to this trade than how Michael Pineda performs in pinstripes this season alone. He has 5 seasons to proove Brian Cashman right or wrong in his decision to trade Montero, yet many people are already calling the trade a catastrophe before the guy has even thrown one pitch in the regular season for the Yankees. Welcome to New York, Michael.
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Posted on April 1, 2012, in Personal Opinion and tagged Brian Cashman, Hector Noesi, Jack Zduriencik, Jesus Montero, Jose Campos, Michael Pineda, Miguel Cabrera. Bookmark the permalink. 60 Comments.
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Matthew B
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Well said Mike. You can’t judge this trade before the season even begins. Give it a couple years at least people.
Give it a couple of years? Sorry, but I wanted to win this year.
Noesi in the rotation would have made us stronger than Freddy will be in my opinion. Montero would have been light years better than Ibanez. I don’t know how much Pineda will contribute.
In “two years” I’d expect the good young pitchers we have at triple A to be ready and I’m not convinced Noesi won’t turn out to be as good as Pineda.
This was just a bad trade. If it makes people feel better to say maybe in two years it will be ok then fine, but as far as this season goes we got weaker when Tampa, Texas, Anaheim and Detroit got better.
Can you honestly tell me as far as this season goes that if you had a magic button you wouldn’t undo this trade?
And how did Tampa get better? Picking up Carlos Pena (their one big acquisition) and his 2 hits in 68 ABs in spring?
You come across as the sort of Yankees fan that gives Yankees fans a bad name…an instant gratification, can’t see the forest because of the trees kind of short-sighted type who just whines to hear themslf whine.
The Yankees will score enough runs, bats are much easier to replace and you cna never have enough high caliber, young, cost-controlled arms.
Matt Moore bro
Correct Matt Moore is going to keep Tampa in the game all year long to go along with the rest of that pitching staff.
Matt Moore is great, but he did pull an abdominal muscle early in the spring, no pitcher especially a young one is a garantee.
And you are the kind of guy who makes me laugh. You don’t have to make trades or signings to get better. Having Moore and Jennings as starters all year is akin to acquiring two unbelievable players. That’s how they got better.
Instant gratification? The last 11 years have yielded all of 1 title despite an incredible payroll and astonishing resources. EPIC FAIL!
I don’t think its instant gratification to expect more than we’ve gotten.
That was an insane trade that weakened the Yankees this year.
Michael, the Yanks upgraded with Kuroda and Pineda and getting rid of AJ. If that’s not a big upgrade then I don’t know what is. They also have a healthy A-Rod which is a major upgrade. The Yanks also won 97 games last year. Pineda only has tendonitis, let’s not jump the gun on him, plus Montero is a work in progress. I would trade a top flight hitter for a top flight pitcher any day of the week. I think it’s way too early to make these kind of judgements. I would hope you would be happy with the same year the Yanks had last year, or are you the fan that it’s world series or bust?
I liked the trade when it was first announced and I still like it. What troubles me and I’m sure I’ll catch some slack about this. Is as fans we are a fickle bunch we jump to conclusions way to fast and then fluctuate with our opinions. Much like polls in an election year. One day a candidates are close in the polls a couple of days later one is leading by 10 points a few days it’s the reverse. Anyway back to baseball and specifically this trade.
I have a real difficult time understanding how fans (in the general term) assume the worse about Pineda’s career based on a relatively small big league sample, yet they assume the best almost god like status of Montero and his career based on an even smaller big league sample. My guess and it’s only that, is neither is justified.
Your last sentence is key here. Nobody knows either way, it’s just optimism vs. pessimism.
I’ve been annoyed by the Montero over-hype for a long time. Now, I don’t know a whole hell of a lot about Pineda, but I see no reason to be so pessimistic at this point.
Funny thing is Hellickson had a 10.20 ERA this spring and he is still the Rays #3 pitcher, can you imagine if he did that for the Yanks this spring.
They would be calling for his head.
Amen, Montero is a “can’t miss” off a small sample size yet Pineda is “done” off one bad start (and velocity aside…that’s what it was, his ERA before that point this spring was 3.31 and his K/BB ratio was 2.5 to 1)
uyf, your right on the money on this one, fans are fickle. I liked this trade from the get go. Montero had no position on the Yanks other than DH, and the Pineda at the beginning of last season has great upside. Trades like this will take 5 years to see how they work out, but both teams got something they needed. As Girardi and Cashman said, this is a long term move. One of the big attractions of Pineda and Campos is their control and upside. Fans want instant sastisfaction, Hughes was great too the fans years ago, and after last year the fans are ready to dump him. Nova is the new golden boy, until he falters. The media can even be worse than the fans, they are just like the rest of the news , always looking for something bad. There’s something to be said for fans that will support their players even when they are going bad.
I am not calling the trade a bust by any means, but it is disappointing to lose such a stud like Montero and then to see Pineda come into camp overweight and pitching already hurt. Montero I think has a bright future, and Pineda can certainly still have one too, but in my opinion the Yanks should have just signed Kuroda and go into camp with the 5th starter spot given to Garcia.
I also forgot to mention that the Yanks have such a solid farm system pitching-wise right now, that this wasn’t a move that was needed. Betances, Banuelos, and even Warren and Phelps are nearly ready to become full-fledged MLB starters.
And none of that answers where you play Montero if you keep him (beyond 2012). He is a hoprrdi defensive catcher, DH is Arod’s going forward and 1B is occupied. You make that trade while his value is high (especially since it was in less than 70 ABs, it was perefect timing for him to impress but not a big enough sample to count on)
Noesi had those 5 good IP in Spring…then got shelled by a JPL team in an exhibition so he is exactly what he was last year, a 4th or 5th at best and far from consistent.
For all the talk of Pineda “struggling” this spring he came into that last start with an ERA 3.50 runs lower than Nova’s and left with one that was STILL a run lower.
Yet he is the one who is struggling and Nova is “ready to go”?
Let’s wait til this trade plays out over the next year or two (or more) before we call it anything, bust or success alike.
Brian, in my opionion none of the starters the Yanks have in their farm have the upside that Pineda has, he was a 22 year old last year throwing 96+ in the big leagues. None of the Yanks minor league pithers throw that hard, Pineda had a K/9 which was 7th in the majors last year. This guy is a potenial #1 pitcher.
And this is my point Brian, and has been for months. Why did we “need” Pineda for the future when we have that many kids at the top end of the system and HAD NOESI!!!???????
Nothing about this trade made sense and its defenders now are people who loved the trade when it happened and just don’t have the guts or integrity to admit they were wrong. Its pointless to debate with people who never change their stance on issue regardless of how much data or evidence comes in.
How much data is in on Pineda i’m confused last i checked he hasn’t made a start in a Yankee uniform.
That response is complete and utter horse****.
You seriously expect those that liked the trade at the time to change their stance based on an incredibly small sample size? Especially a SSS in Spring Training? Anybody that would build their opinion on somebody based on a handful of ST starts is an idiot.
Yep… an idiot.
“…don’t have the guts or intregrity”? Give me a freakin’ break! Take that crap to First Take, where you can Skip Bayless can waste people’s time.
before this gets carried away quickly. remember everyone has a right to their opinion before we get into a name calling battle.
One thing we all agree on is our love for the Yankees.
Sorry, but I didn’t take kindly to being called gutless, or being told I lack integrity. Either somebody was being a dick, or they need to think before they click “Post Comment”. There’s a way to defend your stance without lowering yourself to such comments.
wasn’t singling you out. was just saying it for all. Sorry if you took it that way.
I didn’t think it was just to me, but I did pull out the curse words (edited or not), so I felt I was at least one of them problem children. Thanks.
The media said Pineda came in overwieght, but how about CC, he’s been overweight his whole career. There have been many good pitchers that have been overweight. I think from the get go it was the media trying to find something negative on him. Look at Hellickson for the Rays, his ERA was 10.23 in spring training and he will be their #3 starter. That wouldn’t happen in NY.
Excellent point Doug about Hellickson. He would have been eaten alive for that here. Pineda was and his ERA was in the mid 3’s lol.
How did everybody feel about the Granderson trade after the 1st year? Perfect example we can’t jump the gun here people he hasnt even pitched a real game yet. Matt S is right this trade can’t be judged for years. It was about the future as much if not more than this year.
Good example with the granderson trade Matthew.
We didn’t win that trade, at least not yet. Granderson was a pathetic mess in 2010. Austin Jackson may or may not keep developing, but Kennedy is fantastic.
That trade is a wash at best so far. We’ll see how they all do this year.
Michael, Ian Kennedy isn’t fantastic. Look at his numbers the 1st year out in Arizona. He gave up 25 HR’s. How many do you think he would have given up in Yankees Stadium? Let’s not lose sight of the fact that Kennedy is pitching the majority of his games against the offensively challenged NL West teams. He’s also pitching in in a league without a DH. And let’s not forget the majority of stadiums in the National League are more spacious then those in the American League. All those things have effected his numbers in a positive way. Do you honestly believe that if he had stayed with the Yankees in the AL East that his numbers would be anywhere near where they are today? Because I don’t.
Sure he’s gotten better his 2nd year in Arizona. He’s also gotten older he was 26 for the 2011 season and matured a bit I’m sure. Let’s give Pineda who btw just turned 23 a break and at the very least give him a year with his new team. Coming to NY and the Yankees is a big change for anyone let alone a 23 year old with 1 years MLB experience who previously pitched in Seattle.
No. He can’t give Pineda a break, because he didn’t like the trade and is too stubborn to see things any other way. But we’re the ones without any guts or integrity. *rolls eyes*
So that trade is “we’ll see”, but the Montero/Pineda trade is already spoken for?
Hello?
Brian, the data on that trade so far has it even with me. You can’t take what Granderson did last year and ignore his tragic 2010. You can’t take Ajax’s 2011(bad) and ignore his 2010. You have to look at what Kennedy has done in Zona.
I never said it was a bad trade, I said I’m not in the group that thinks the Yankees have won that trade. They may, but not yet.
As far as Pineda goes, I wrote earlier this year that the way he came to camp was disturbing. it shows poor character to get traded to a team like the Yankees and show up like that to camp. He’s also appeared mentally weak in dealing with the press and in his emotion after his last start. This is a guy who had one good HALF of a season and in addition to looking bad in camp he know has a shoulder issue.
I’m obviously hoping he can return, get to the minors and get straightened out, and come up and contribute. I just can’t count on it.
If the Yankees had been weak in the system with pitching prospects I could maybe understand why the trade was made a bit more, but pitchers and catchers we have plenty of.
What we don’t have at the highest level(projected to impact in the next two seasons) are bats. The only bat we had ready was Montero, and to trade him away for something we already had a strength in(young pitchers) was something I didn’t understand.
We have AGING players in Jeter and ARod who will be increasingly injury prone. We have a catcher who can’t hit, an old DH who can’t hit anymore, and a very dicey Texeira and Swisher(the two biggest postseason chokers I have ever witnessed in pinstripes). That makes me nervous. There is noone at triple A to come and save the day if someone goes down(as far as a bat goes).
This team is going to be heavily dependent on Gardner and the 1-4 hitters. Can they carry the team? Sure they can. It just lessens the margin for error.
I’m a huge fan of long lineups and always have been. I think its vital to have a good stick below the cleanup hitter in the AL. We’ve had that in Cano the last few years(to say the least!) but now he’s third.
I HOPE Texeira and Swisher return to good form, I hope Martin hits more, I hope Ibanez turns the clock back a bit. Hope doesn’t cost anything, and hope is what being a fan is based on.
I hear the talk of “future” on this trade now, it dominates the remarks on it by people who like it.
I haven’t heard any of you say that you think it strengthens the Yankees this year. Montero’s trade value wouldn’t have been any less after this season, and will likely be more. There was no burning need to trade him this past offseason. In my opinion we could have gotten a nice offensive year from him this year and then peddled him for even more.
You’re also talking to a guy who was high on Noesi and thought he was going to be this year’s version of Nova.
I’d like to win this year and will not sit here and lie and say I’m giddy because maybe in two seasons Pineda will justify this.
I’m past the dynasty years. They were great and for a while they were close enough to hold onto and ease the pain of a season ending without a title. 2003 even felt like a title because of the way that we won the East. We’re now 11 or 12 years from the end of that dynasty run and its in the past. Now I hear a lot of talk about the “future”. Future and past are what I hear a lot about from Yankee fans.
Well, the fact that I want to win NOW while Arod and Jeter still have some of their dwindling productive years left doesn’t make me a fickle fan. NOW matters more than the past or the future in anything in life.
Good trades are one’s that benefit all teams involved, the Granderson and Pineda trades did that in my book. As a good GM, you make trades to better your team and don’t look back, after that its up to the player to produce.
Now the Granderson trade was not a good trade? A response is not even necessary for that
You go back and find where I ever said that ok? You won’t. I’ve consistently stated that I think that trade is a wash or even as of now. That certainly doesn’t mean it was a bad trade and I’ve never said any such thing.
Just because I refuse to ignore Granderson’s disgrace of a 2010 and Ajax’s good 2010 and everything Kennedy has done doesn’t mean I’m hating on the trade.
If Granderson can produce even close to what he did last year this season then it will look really, really, good. I’m optimistic that Granderson will have a big year.
It’s interesting to see the big changes in baseball through the years. Jimenez gets a 5 game suspension for hitting Tulo in spring training. This is a far cry form the days of Sal (the barber) Maglie, Bob Gibson, and other pitchers of the past. In the old days the hitters didn’t even wear helmets. Today the pitcher is suspended for throwing at the hitter, pitchers are warned. It is a totally different game. My question is why they don’t change the play at the plate with the catcher. Buster Possey was injured on that play, all baseball has to do is make all players slide into home plate, like they do in HS. You would think by changing the pitching rules so drastically, they would have changed this rule by now.
Posey has been instructed never to take a direct hit at the plate again i believe i read.
Pineda is a Power Pitcher with awful mechanics and is destined to throw out his arm
This will be the trade that finishes Cashman as the Yanks GM.When Montero is hitting .320 with 30 homers and Pineda is going for Tommy John surgery
for the Yankees sake I hope your wrong. We shall see as time will tell.
Go root for the Mariners, then. I’m tired of “the sky is falling” type fans like you.
or worst the cubs.
Does it make sense for people to be so pessimistic? So many Yankee “fans” sound more like “haters”.
I think you’re mistaking honest dissatisfaction with this trade for being a hater. Back when Cashman dealt Dunn, Melky, and Vizcaino(sob, I wish we still had him) for Javier the clown I was insane with rage. Anyone with a pulse knew that was a moronic trade.
It didn’t make me or anyone else who disagreed with that trade a hater anymore than it does anyone who strongly feels that this trade was stupid, unncessary, or weakened the Yankees for 2011.
Plenty about this team I’m optimistic over, but I feel that trade will haunt the Yankees badly unless Cashman breaks from his norm and acquires a bat by the deadline. We’re weak below the cleanup man, too weak. Montero’s bat in the 5,6 or 7 spot would have made this order seem so much longer to pitchers. After they get by Arod they now the strikeout twins, an old man, and a catcher who hit .237 last year. If you have faith in those 4 guys then good, I hope you’re right and I’m wrong.
I want more than anything to be sitting here responding in early November to “I told you so!!” from each and every one of you that thinks that trade was a good one. I want more than anything to see number 28 notched on the belt. I want Pineda to come back with guns blazing, I want Teixeira to raise his average and OBP 40 points and shed his post season choking, I want Swisher to hit consistently and not just add on meaningless runs in games out of hand(his trademark along with his postseason disgraces), I want Ibanez to surprise me by having a year left.
I want those things, and I want them badly. I will root for all of them to happen.
A “hater” would root down the Yankees and Pineda just to be “right” about his or her idea that the trade was tragic. I would love to be wrong. I’d love to sit here with a smile on my face after number 28 taking abuse from everyone who said this was the right thing to do. I’ll step up and admit error if thats the case, I won’t run and hide or make excuses.
Will you do the same if those of us who hate the trade turn out to be right?
Again, I don’t give a DAMN about 2013 until this season is over and I don’t want to hear lame excuses about the “future”. With the pitchers and catchers in the system, the monetary resources, and the amount of variables that will be entered into the equation before 2013 and 2014. When you have a nucleus in place like the Yankees had, and three aging stars whose windows are closing, you don’t make trades for three years from now at the expense of weaking the NOW!!!
NOW is the most precious time in life. People who focus on the past and future and don’t worry about the now never succeed. The time is always NOW in life.
Simple premise here, I think the Yankees needed Montero’s bat this year far more than they needed Pineda and I think Noesi will be as good or better than Pineda this year.
I hope more than you could ever imagine that I’m wrong.
Michael P, with all due respect and I just as much as anyone respect fans opinions and their right to share them. But as a wise man once told me. There is a reason why GM’s do what they do and we do what we do. They do and we lament about what they should do or should have done. They have far more facts and resources available to them then even the most knowledgeable fan has. Does that mean they will never make a mistake? Of course not. But from where I sit and I’ve been a Yankees fan probably longer then most on this board. Through the Very good times, the good time, not so good times and their resurgence. And I will say without equivocation I’d rather rely on Cashman’s decisions about the Yankees then any blogger or poster on this or any other board.
I hope fans and the good people that run this blog will forgive my frankness, but that’s just the way I feel.
Well I’ve heard that said and it doesn’t wash with me. Omar Minaya knew more than we did?
LOL!!
He was a GM right?
Cashman’s trade record is an embarassment.
Cashman’s strong suit to me has always been his bargain hunting. He’s been SUPERB at acquiring those small pieces that make a difference.
I just don’t think major trades are his strong suit.
How’d you like to have Melky and Arodys Vizcaino(cue harsh, racking sobs of grief) back?
I respect your opinions and those of everyone else.
Michael, it’s amazing with Cashman making all these bad trades, the Yanks are in the playoffs every year inspite him. With all due respect I think you are wrong on this one.
lol, whats more amazing is that with the payroll and resources he’s had that Cashman only has one title in the last 11 years, or one fewer than the Red Sox and Cardinals in the same timeframe. I guess playoffs are enough for some people, they aren’t to me.
Michael, you will have to forgive me. Because while you say you respect others opinions. Your comments don’t seem to be very tolerant of views that differ from yours. Of course that’s just my opinion and with that I will leave this topic to posters far smarter than I. Have a good day.
Why leave? I do respect your opinion and all opinions. If I didn’t I wouldn’t have said that if you guys are right about the trade and I’m wrong that I will be right here ready and willing to take the jabs and “I told you so’s”.
Furthermore I WANT you to be right!!!! I want to be WRONG!! Let me make that as clear as possible. Being “right” will never feel as good or taste as sweet as a Yankee title!!
Wanting us to be right in our opinions, and respecting those opinions, are different things.
It’s funny you bring up the Vazquez trade as an example, because that trade fits perfectly with me too.
You see, I defended that trade. I thought Javier was a different pitcher than we saw last time in NY. He’d had plenty of success, and although I didn’t expect that same amount of success to translate to the AL, I did think he was better for the team at the time. I was wrong. I’m not sold on Vizcaino quite yet, as neither are the Braves apparently, but the trade was still unnecessary and could effect the team this year and beyond.
Which brings me to something I find flawed in your post… It sounds like you were against the Vazquez trade not because of what it meant to the team that year, but because of how it effected them in the future (including this season). In that case, why does it enrage you so that part of the reason people defend the Pineda trade is for the future? Kind of hypocritical, don’t you think?
By the way, the “hater” thing was not directed at you. It was a question of your motives, but if it wasn’t for another person around here I never would have put that up.
I was against that trade because I thought that like many pitchers who switch to the weaker NL, that Javier was the same pitcher he always was and would be a disaster. I was a huge believer and fan of Melky and the Binder helped run him out of town and we all know it. He selected Gardner over Melky at the start of 2009 and was embarassed that Melky played his way in and made him look like a fool. I loved Melky’s arm and thought he was a better player than Gardner and I still do. I like Gardner’s speed, but this is really his last year in my opinion to put it together before he should be moved also. He’s constantly injured, and can never get anything consistent going at the plate. Strikes out way too much to ever be a true leadoff hitter so that speed isn’t as important as it would be if he was a good OBP guy. Here we are another year into the Gardner era and he’s still going to be hitting 9th.
Again, you have a LOT more faith that Pineda is something special than I do. He pitched in easiest division in the AL to pitch in and hung up some good numbers in one half of one season. He then imploded. I have him as more the Jiminez type, as Jiminez did EXACTLY the same thing.
I have no faith that Pineda will ever be anything special or more to the point turn out to be better than Noesi, the “throw in” in that deal.
“and Vizcaino(sob, I wish we still had him)”
Why do you wish you still had him? Because you thought he was going to contribute to the team in 2010? No, you wish we still had him for what he could do for the team in 2012 or beyond, which is exactly what you just ranted against… thinking of the future in regards to Michael Pineda.
Hypocrite.
Just like you had/have more faith in Melky Cabrera than Brett Gardner, I have faith that Michael Pineda is going to be at the top or the rotation instead of guys like Adam Warren. BTW, Melky’s triple-slash in 7 MLB seasons is .275/.331/.398, while Gardner’s in 4 MLB seasons is .264/.353/.368. Pretty close, and kind of sad on Melky’s part that Gardner’s SLG is so close, as Brett is NOT a power hitter at all. But what about bWAR. In 7 seasons Melky’s is 7.7, while in 3 less seasons Brett’s is 11.7. So go ahead and say Melky is better in your opinion, but don’t act like it’s ridiculous to think otherwise. Oh, and arm strength is not as valuable as range… which Brett has a lot more of.
And you have more faith in Noesi? Based on what? In 56.1 innings in MLB? The same innings in which he’s had a WHIP of 1.509 and ERA of 4.47? Maybe it’s the 3.5 BB/9 he put up then. Again, have more faith in him… fine. But quit the ranting about those that think otherwise, as if they have no reason to do so.
Hypocrite? At the time i wasn’t upset about Vizcaino, so I don’t know where you get that.
Melky is a better all around player in my opinion but I can understand why some get mesmerized with Gardner’s speed and range(and rag arm).
Where did I call anyone ridiculous for thinking otherwise?
I also understand I’m in the minority on Noesi vs Pineda, again I never called anyone ridiculous who liked Pineda better.
Why don’t you stick to facts? The fact is I said neither thing.
If you didn’t care about Vizcaino’s future relevance to the team, then why the “sob” remark? Whether that care occurred now or 2 years ago is besides the point. The point is you care about the negative side of that trade, at least partly, because of what it could mean to the team today and in the future. Which actually stretches not only into what Vizcaino could mean to the rotation, but also to what Cabrera could mean to the lineup. It wasn’t just about 2010, it was about the future. That same “future” that you scoffed at when I and others discuss what Pineda could mean in 2014 and beyond.
THAT is a hypocrite. Just because you don’t see it, doesn’t mean it isn’t there. Just like it doesn’t matter whether you actually used the word “ridiculous” or not, because the way you said that thing about Gardner makes it easy for somebody to go to that conclusion. Have you ever heard the phrase “reading between the lines”?
You talk about facts as if I have none, and you have them all. You have an opinion without facts to back them up. And instead of just admitting that, which would be perfectly fine, you roll your eyes at those that disagree. That is why you get negative responses. But you don’t see that. We’re the problem… not you.
I was right… you and Skip Bayless would make a great couple.
Jp – I’m curious when do you think Montero will hit .320 w/30 HR’s? Because as best I can tell Montero’s never hit more than 21 HR’s and that was in 2010 in SWB, As for him batting .320 or more once he got to SWB .289 was his highest BA. All of the projects I see for him on Fangraphics for the 2012 season are in the low 20’s for HR’s and about a .280 or so BA.
I think you may be being just a bit overly optimistic about Montero and pessimistic about about Pineda. But to each his own.
JP, Tommy John is for the elbow, Pineda’a tendonitis is in his shoulder!