Great week by Ichiro has fans saying Brett Who???

Should Ichiro be back next year?

Ichiro’s inspired performance over the last week has fans dreaming what he could possibly do with a full season in Yankee Stadium.  The popular thought is that Ichiro’s decline the past  2 seasons has been more a matter of motivation, or lack there of in Seattle, than the fact that he’s a soon to be 39-year-old player whose game is built largely on speed.  Ichiro has helped jump-start the team’s recent hot streak (10-2 over last 12) and has some thinking that this team’s starting lineup should be brought back intact next season.   But what about Brett Gardner who has been the starting LF the last 2 years and the only Yankees starter 28 or under coming into this season?

Some are saying Brett has to prove himself all over again and are bringing up the same 4th Outfielder talk that dogged him his rookie year.  Has everyone forgotten how stagnant and one-dimensional the Yankees offense has been much of this year?  Or that the average age of the roster is more than 3 yrs older than any team in the A.L.? Or that the Yankees have had ZERO production from the bottom of the order this yr without Gardner?

This season, Yankees #8 hitters have a .293 OBP/.665 OPS & #9 hitters have a .307 OBP/.694 OPS.  Without Gardner batting 9th as the second leadoff man, the bottom of the order has been station to station and stagnant.  As a result, our best hitter this year – Derek Jeter – has only 57 RBI despite leading MLB in PA (697) and hits (207) and hitting .317 with RISP.  Despite having a tremendous season, he is driving in Runs at the worst rate of his career with just 1 RBI per 12 Plate Appearances.  It’s not because he isn’t hitting, it’s because he hasn’t had many runners on base and the ones that are on base are not good baserunners.  Jeter has only had 331 runners on base in his 697 PAs.  The MLB average for a player with 697 PAs should be 414 baserunners. The players Jeter has driven in the most this season (besides himself) are Martin, Stewart & Ichiro – 5 times each. By comparison, he’s driven in Gardner 3 times THIS yr despite Brett only playing 9 games! You think Jeter misses the opportunity to drive Gardner in?

Gardner has a career .355 OBP.  This season only Jeter and Cano have better OBP than that (both around .364). Putting someone who gets on base like that in the 9-hole in front of Jeter will give this team the circular lineup they’ve lacked.  Brett’s never going to be a HR hitter but he is one of top 5 players in MLB in pitches seen per PA, Stolen Bases, Defensive Runs Saved, UZR AND he is in his prime at 28.  For a team trying to get younger,more athletic and lower payroll, Gardner is the only potential starter they have to fit that description.  He’s still affordable at $2.8 M with a slight raise next yr.  Ichiro will be 39 and made $17 Million this yr.  If he wants to come back with the Yanks how much of a pay cut will he accept? Will he accept a 50% pay cut to $8.5M which is 3 times the cost of Gardner?

But this isn’t meant to disparage Ichiro, just to point out Brett is sorely missed. At this point in their careers, Gardner and Ichiro are very similar players with Ichiro getting the edge in hitting for average.  Brett’s a .265 career hitter who should improve now in his prime while Ichiro has hit .277 over his last 2 years and will be 39 next yr. Brett gets on base more, steals more, hits for a higher OPS and plays better defense than a 39-yr old Ichiro.  But IMO there should NOT even be  a question of Brett or Ichiro.  Brett is guaranteed a spot on this team next yr.  The question will be Swisher or Ichiro?

I really can’t see Swisher staying.  He’s talking a Jayson Werth-type about a $100 Million+ contract.  When looking for a similar aged player with similar stats, Andre Ethier is a great comparison and he  signed a 5 year, $85M deal with an option yr that makes it 6 yrs $100M if healthy.  And that was an extension without hitting the open market.  That is what Swisher will be looking for and expect some team to go AT LEAST 4 yrs $60M.  With the new TV deal MLB just signed, every team in baseball gets double the national TV revenue and many others are copying the Yankees YES model and signing their own massive Regional TV deals.  Teams are looking to SPEND with the exception of the Yankees who are looking to cut some $30-40 Million of their payroll.  With that in mind and all of the long/lucrative contracts on the books, i don’t see the Yankees adding to that with Swisher.  I expect Cashman to pull off a trade for a moderately priced young veteran OR look to bring a veteran in on a 1-year deal.  He’ll offer Swish the 1 yr $13 Million qualifier which he’ll decline. It may come down to bringing Ichiro back to play his  natural RF spot or possibly someone like Tori Hunter.

But what is your opinion?  What should the Yankees OF look like next year given their financial constraints?  If Ichiro is brought back, will it be at the expense of Brett, Swish or Granderson?  Or can Ichiro be brought back to play the Raul Ibanez role to play vs RHP?  Also, has Ichiro’s massive week changed your opinion of him that he is more than the player he’s shown the last 2 years in Seattle?

About fishjam25

Was a 4-yr Pitcher and Communications Major at Seton Hall University in the 90s. His knowledge & opinion of the game comes from his background as a player and ardent lifetime Yankee fan. However, Fishjam also incorporates sabermetrics and statistical support to form a well-rounded view of the game.

Posted on September 25, 2012, in Personal Opinion, Player Analysis. Bookmark the permalink. 79 Comments.

  1. Very very nicely done again fishjam. Guys such as Brett have to go out and prove themselves every game, let alone every year. It is a shame, so many of use have gone through the same thing in by gone years…it is always he is to small, to short, to tall, to slow, doesn’t work at his game, you name it! In the end, it is the heart in the man, not the heat from the press or nay sayers that comes through.
    Of course, there has to be a bit of talent there to begin with…heart isn’t going to let you hit a 95 mph fastball is it but, put them together and you could have a star or just a very good player. Me I’ll take either one of them!

    • i just dont see how a 9 hole hitter,…. that often will get only 3 chances a game to get a hit,….. that you want to play in 150 games starting in left field, with little to no power, getting maybe 120-130 hits, is worth it.

      if you had confidence gardner could bat 1, and get 4-5 chances a game, and get 180 hits,….. id be all for gardner playing

      at this point, looking at jeter 1, ichiro 2,… now the lineup has a mnan on almost once every 2 innings for the big hitters,……

      gardner to me doesnt have to prove anything,.. he is what he is,…….the question the brain strust needs to answer is,– is it worth it? in terms of potential wins and loses

      • Well Jim2244..
        Have you ever heard of walks/hits combined? Brett-192 and he had 188 total bases…without counting base on balls.
        Try stacking his numbers up against other players from last year…that means Itchy and Jeter. He stacks up very well…seeing as he avg., one less AB a game, not bad for some 4th/5th OF is it?

        • My outfield next year is Ichiro , Gardner, and Grandy with Ludwick as the fourth outfielder. I really like the outfield of Hamilton, Gardner, and Tori Hunter, but I think its a stretch to think that would happen.

          • Doug – Gardner, Hamilton, Choo

            • Choo… one year rental with a pretty severe split no? Unless the Indians want to be reasonable on cost i think that doesn’t fly.

              Hamilton…. yikes. double yikes. Big time pay day for a guy that has health issues. NYC probably not the best place for him either. If you’re one of the people who wants the Yanks to get younger and stay away from stupid contracts then Hamilton would be a huge red flag. He is for me.

          • doug…
            I think it is a personal choice, although some would go for keeping Granderson for one more year, as you do. I guess I wouldn’t have an objection to keeping him another year and let the guys on the farm get more playing time down there.
            I think it is about time they bring Dickerson up as a 4th OF/LHDH and MustelierOF/RHDH.

      • Yup, he is more than worth it. Can you be sure Itchy and Jeter will have the same as this year? No, hopefully they would but, if not Brett can be a Lead-off hitter if given a real chance…more than a few games.

        • again, read the entire analysis below in many posts,.. gardner failed in the 1 hole, very badly, in 56 starts in the 1 hole, or 57,…. only 53 hits,….. only 8 first inning hits from the 1 hole,..

          and combine it with the 67 hitless games he had at least 1 plate appearance

          and combine that, he is only good for a run or rbi in less than 50% of games he plays in,m.. and even less if he doesnt get the 1 hole for more chanmces

          what we are looking at is a sub par player

          he is no tim raines

          • your tiny sample sizes are as flawed as your narrow scope analysis.

            with the budget coming up you’re going to have to start looking at value per dollar as well, and there aren’t many people in baseball that could stack up to less than a million per Win.

    • Ken…Old Ranger: Good morning. And you other metropolitan bloggers…Jim22224444, and Brendan…good morning also. Nice win last night. Fine article, Fishjam. Ken, check your e-mail. Thanks. Take care.

  2. in 2011 garner played in 159 games,…73 of those games he did not have a hit,…he had zero plate appearances in 6 of those games,

    so we are looking at 67 hitless games,.. for a guy that with no power,.. it suppose to be getting on.

    he had 36 multi hit games, 50 games with 1 hit

    for a total of 132 hits, he had 87 runs and 36 rbi, 60 walks

    gardner batted in the 1 hole in 2011 in 57 games, 57 starts,….. with 53 hits, 230 batting average, in 264 plate appearances

    as the first batter first inning, gardner obnly had 8 hits, in 57 plate appearances, 8 for 48, 167 avg, wioth 6 walks and 3 hit by pitch, only scoring 11 times , 11 runs, in this roll

    batting gardner at 1 failed miserably

    so we are talking about garner batting 9, maybe with 70 hitless games,….. or batting jeter 1 and ichiro 2,.. with the chance they both get 200 hits next season


    it may have been a blessing in disguise gardner got injuured

  3. gardner made 2.8 million thgis year,….. he is arbitration eligible this off season,, but wont go that route, cuse he has no stats to take to anb arbitrator,….

    i know gardner comes cheap,.. but if he can not bat 1, which he failed at in 2011 badly, .. from this point on,.. if he is a yankee, he at best can platoon or be bench player

    maybe gardner can find new life on another team,…. playing everyday,.. maybe he figures it out and becomes a better hitter

    but this is the ny yankees,….. we cant afford him playing the 9 hole in left,.. when it is certainly possible ichiro wants to remain a yankee

  4. if jeter starts next season,, and bat in the one hole the first 57 games,…. starts all 57 games,, and only had 53 hits,…. people would be calling for his head on a platter,…

    i do not see an arguement for gardner ,.. when we can get ichiro or someone else , that is better then gardner,…

    we shouldhave been calling for gardners head on a platter after last season,….

    thsi is not a developing player anymore,.. he turns 30 years of age next august…

    this is his prime

    this is what you get

  5. yes , gardner scored in 2011 at a high rate when he got on,…… jeter was hot after he got off the DL,… and the yankees big hitters did well in 2011.

    but if gardner did a lot better at his job,……. he could score over 120 runs, not 87.

    jeter 1, ichiro 2,… next season, will give the lineup a lot more chances for the big hitters to get rbis,…

    in 2011 the yankees had 3 players with over 100 rbi,..

    so yeah, not having gardnet at 9 hurt the rbo total as compared to 2011

    but having jeter 1 ichiro 2,… the cscoring could be way above 2011

  6. in 2011 gardner scored runs in 61 games,….. had rbis in 29 games

    gardener scored a run or had an rbi in 69 games last season in 153 games he had a plate appearance in

    ichiro has had a run or rbi in 73 games this season, in 150 games with plate appearances

    but,….. you got to condider ichiro was on seattle for the first 95 games he appeared in

    since coming to the yankees, ichiro has had a run or rbi in 23 games , had zero plate appearance in 3 games, and had only 1 plate appearance in 7 games,, out of 58 games appearaed in on the yankees ( he has appeared in every game since becoming a yankee)

    gardner 2011 on the yankees 69/153 = 45.10%

    ichiro 2012 on the yankees 23/ 55= 41.82% ( 7 of those 55 games he only had 1 plate appearance)

    ichiro overall 73/150 = 48.67%

    there could be your gardner arguement over ichiro

    but rememeber, for a good part of ichiro on the yankees either aord, teixeira, or both – have been out of the lineup

    certainly ichiro can reduce his hitless games down to about 30,…. and get close to 200 hits batting 2,… and with a healthy lineup 3-7,.. and jeter batting 1, we are looking at a potent offense

    we have no indication that gardner can be any better than he actually was in 2011

  7. if you keep the total games gardner had a run or rbi in in 2011, which is 69,…. and just divide by that total games he had 2 more plate appearances in. you get…

    69/141 = 48.94%

    if you do the same for ichiro for 2012 season you get..

    73/143 = 51.05%

    just in this respect, it is really close , with ichiro having the edge

    but when you factor in gardner in 2011 was on a team with 3 hitters over 100 rbis,.., and ichiro in 2012 seattle’s highest rbi guy right now only has 81 rbi,…. and ichiro been on the yankees without teixeira or arod for extended periods of time,… you can see how much more ichiro can contribute in 2012 over gardner

    does anyone see what i am saying?

    • if money is an issue moving forward, which it is, you’d be silly to drop gardner and go with a 40 year old that won’t be around for the 2014-15 budget crunch.

      using ichiro’s tiny sample size while in NY is flawed; the run he’s on (24/48) has skewed his numbers to the tune of a .700 SLG%, which is so far from sustainable that it’s not even funny.

      i agree that they should balance the OF with a right handed bat, but dumping gardner, who gives you incredible payroll flexibility would be a huge mistake.

  8. Fishjam…once again you NAILED IT on the head!!!

    Gardner will be back next year. It’s between Ichiro or Swisher. We’re comparing the wrong players due to the positions they play.

    Well done.

  9. in contrast jeter has had a run or rbi in 86 games this season,…… and 2 or more plate appearances in 149 games

    so, 86/149 = 57.72%

    and all this with no gardner getting on in the 9 hole, with injuries to arod and teixeira for extended periods of time, with martin batting in the back end most of the season was hitting less than 200,…. and granderson batting 230 ,…..

    in 2011 jeter had a hit or run in 76 games, in 131 games with 2 or more plate appearces

    76/131 = 58.01%

    in 2010 jeter had a hit or run in 93 games, had 2 or more plate appearances in 155 games, so

    93/155 = 60.00%

    and people thought jeter had a bad season in 2010, lol,…. people sometimes have no idea what they are looking at inside the numbers

    people have been calling for me to do an analysis that had nothing to do with hits

    well there you have it this morning,…

    an analysis involving just runs and rbis in games, for jeter, gardner, and ichiro

  10. in 2009, jeter had a run or rbi in 99 games, he had 2 or more plate appearances in 152 games

    99/152 = 65.13%

  11. swisher IS coming back,.. gardner is going to the bench in case ichiro gets hurt— that is what should happen

    i know that means ibanez is gone for a better contract, cause the yankees will need a right handed back up outfielder

    you cant have 3 leftys like delia wants– gardner-granderson-and ichiro, as your starting outfielde

    you need to keep swisher as a starter,.. and have a right handed bat on the bench

  12. Great article as always Fish. yankee OF next year will be Granderson, Gardner, Ichiro…..maybe Musteiler will get a shot of the bench as well.

    • sorry I can’t get on board with the idea of having 0 power at the corner OF spots

      • Matthew B – I know tradition tells us corner OF is a power spot but does it really matter what position is supplying what? Does it help the team if Gardner plays CF and Granderson plays LF (like he should) because we have Granderson’s power in LF instead of CF?

        As it is the Yankees get 70+ HRs a year from 2 “non-traditional” power positions – 2B & CF.

        Also a Run is a Run. You don’t get more credit by scoring via HRs. Whether Gardner walks, steals second and scores on a bloop hit or 2groun or A.Jones hits a solo HR. Gardner creates more runs (RC+ of 104 in 2011) and saves more runs than players with more power. For people that like WAR, Gardner was 3rd on the Yankees last yr with 5.2 Wins above Replacement behind Cano (5.6) and Granderson (7.0). Ichiro’s WAR was 0.4.

        • mantle and diamgio i believe both have batting titles, both have mvps, both hit with some power, both played center field for the yankees
          abd bernie also has a batting title as yankees center fielder with some power

          anything over 20 homers is a traditional power guy ,.. add in doubles and stuff,… you got a decent center fielder

          you tell me if granderson will win a batting title, or gardner,…

          and i want to keep this entire team as is, with 2 changes ,….. start ichiro in left, and replace ibanez at the left side batter with gardner, and replace jones with a better aging veteran, if possible

          in fact dimaggio had 3 mvp, and 25 or more homer 9 times,…..with a 325 lifetime average

          mantle also had 3 mvps and 25 or more homers 10 times, with a 298 career avg

          yoiu mentioned the word traditional,…….

          yankees center field is tradition

          • You forgot to mention Mickey’s Triple Crown! But anyhow, to your point of tradition, that was in the last century. It is a different game now days, most of those using drugs to enhance their talent is about over with.
            We all know good pitching stops heavy hitters, but guys like Jeter, Itchy and Brett types will get hits.
            So I think Brett, Itchy and whom ever (swisher?). Can get the job done very well, thank you very much.

        • I have no problem with Gardner but I know since he is so hot that people are loving Ichiro right now but I think they could do better than him for next season.

          • Matt B….for stretches of time during the season we will see the old Iichy . But over a full 2013 season you will see Iichy’s avg regress to .260-.275. With very few walks. Not the table setter he used to be.

          • matt, i understand, but ichiro has a resume that is impecable,…… yes, he has some hitless games,.. as i described the analysis above,.. still less than gardner had in 2011,… and i believe,….that like jeter, as i explained above,…. can avoid the hitless game next season,….. get it down to maybe 30, starting 150 games in left,….. where 180 hits would then be a no brainer,…possibly 200

            this is exactly what jeter did to get back ,.. even though jeter never went anywhere,

            as descibed in this thread, jeter had a run oir rbi, in a higher percentage of games with plate appearances in 2010, than he has had in 2011 or 2012

            even though the drop off is only a couple percentage points

            i truly believe ichiro has a lot left

            and you got to go for it right now and again in 2013

            so, it is not jusdt that ichiro is hot,.. he is 4 hits out of being in the top ten in hits in the AL even this season

            he eliminates hitless games, and stays focused in 2013, we are looking at a top 20 player, maybe a top 10 player

            people wrote jeter off, and look at him now

            we have to hit now, the world series

            i have no problem with gardner either next season on the bench, filli ng in,…. if someone gets hurt,.. he will get a 2nd shot

            he shopuld be happy with this, and so shopuld we

            he isnt unrestricted til after 2014 season

        • Fish – Bret has better metrics in 2011 but he is not very personable or good looking. Ichy has rejuvenated the Yankee crowd and they Love him. His shirt tugging, darknhair, sneaky smile.
          Gardner looks a little backwards, eyes crossed, no hair, yellow teeth……the camera doesn’t love him. The fans will cheer more for Iichy causing more wins.

          • coime on twasp,.. personable or good looking?,.. forget the meterics too,……

            twasp,.. it is all about wins,…. and post season wins to boot,..

            brett gardner got his shot in 2011,.. on a team that had 3 players get over 100 rbi,….

            and failed terribly

            i’m not saying he is getting old,.. but in august next season gardner turns 30

            by times players turn 30, such as tim raines,.. he is a already a big time establiushed force in mlb,…

            people look at gardner as a kid,.. and cut him so much slack, it is foolish

            • How did gardner fail terribly in 2011?? He was 3rd on the team in WAR, 4th in Runs Scored, 5th in OBP, 1st in SBs, 1st in Pitches Seen per PA, 1st in Defensive Runs Saved, 1st in UZR, 1st in Sarifices.

              He led the American league in Stolen Bases, Defensive Runs Saved, Total Zone Runs, Defensive WAR, 2nd in Assists for a LF.

              he played hurt most of the 2nd half and his numbers dipped but with the above stats how did he fail?

  13. YOU STILL NEED A RIGHT HANDED BATTING RIGHT FIELDER THEN,…….. for the same reason you saying no swisher,…. would be the same reason they cant go out and get another free agent righty right fielder

    thats a rock and a hard place

    i wouldnt dare go into the season with a 3 lefty starting outfield with both ichiro and gardner starting

    you never know what you are going to get from an aging right handed on the bench,.. look at jones this year,.. since the all star break he collapsed

    but virtue of necessity, you got to get swisher at a reasonable price,.. and aklso have ichiro

    mo is coming back maybe at 10 million, he got paid this year too,….

    you got joba and robertson healthy now

    you can save 14 million off the top by trading soriano for prospects to the national league

  14. since the all star break, jones has played in 42 of 68 games, with 31 starts., 33 games with 2 or more plate appearances

    he is 14 for 102, 137 average, with 10 runs and 11 rbi, 2 homers, 3 doubles, 14 walks, 3 hbp,.2 sacrifice flys

    he has had a run or rbi in 15 games
    15/33 games with 2 or more plate appearances = 45.45%

    so,, even with the 137 average since the all star break, he has a run or rbi in 45.45% of the games since the all star break as to toal games with 2 or more plate appearances in that time

    but he is not a starter,, he was aplatoon player simply by virtue of gardner being out

    but in reality, gardner is also not starting job material,,he is also a platoon or bench player in my opinion


    we can not settle for a guy like gardner , that when given a full shot in 2011 , only got a run or rbi in 45.10% of games in which he had a plate appearance,….

    • Jim do me a favor please, forget stats, they can give one a false sense of superiority but, don’t tell everything.
      Think about it, why did Jones and Raul Ibanez get a contract for one year? Could it be because Cashman didn’t see anyone out there to spend money on that would work for the same money? Now they can turn them lose without having to pick-up part of a contract.
      I am not sure Cashman will try and sign Iychy (for one year), or if Itchy will want to. I think he would help us in the running game, but hurt us only in the HR department.
      So bottom line is, will Cashman get us a right handed bat or find an OF with some power in the minors.

      • Jim…….do not forget stats….they can sometimes give older commenters a sense of inferiority…..but they are an essential part of analyzing player performance.

        • thats what i was saying after the 2010 season, even though jeter had 179 hits, and 11 runs scored, 2nd most in the al behind teixiera,….. i loooked LE OF STAT ANALYSIS,.. AND SAW 43 HITLESS GAMES FOR JETER


          jeter has 27 hitless games this season

          and here we are, he has 207 hits, leads the majors,. and 9 games left to play

          if cano wasnt in an rbi slimp to begin the season, a terrible rbi slump, if you remember,.. and then teix and areod being injured,. and the back end not hitting for jack crap

          jeter woulda had 120 runs and 80 rbi

          ichiro batting next season at the 2 hoile, and eliminating hitless games,….. gives the yankees a chance to repeat as world series champs,….

          and i do think they win it thgids year now,… and next year

    • Jim, what does showing how many games a player had a Run or a RBI show you?

      Runs and RBI are not good stats for showing a player’s worth. Runs & RBI are more team stats as except for a Home Run, players don’t knock themselves in or score on their own hits. Players with more At Bats/Plate Appearances will have more Runs/RBI so it’s not an equal comparison.

      You’ve said Ichiro is a great table-setter. In 2011, Gardner was better.

      The job of a table-setter is to get on base and get in scoring position. Gardner got on base 34.5% of his Plate Appearances and stole 49 bases with 588 PAs. Gardner scored 86 runs batting 9th with just 588 PAs Ichiro got on base 31.0% and stole 40 bases with 721 PAs. Ichiro led off but scored just 80 runs with 721 PAs.

      • WELL, SHEESH,, I was being criticized for all my stats being about HITS,.. now i go to runs and rbis and still get criticized, lol

        runs and rbi are a team stat,.. and i believe i have shown that ichiro playing everyday, can get more runs and rbis in more games than gardner can playing everday

        thats the point, gardnet is not good enough to be a table setter,….even on the back end at 9

        i proved that

        people talk like he is tim raines in his prime

        gardner couldnt shine trim raines shoes

        • its pretty funny when im thinking i rather have vince coleman in lefdt then gardner, considering how everyone is so rose colored glasses on gardner

        • Jim, you proved nothing.

          You don’t have to make up stats…..the stats are already there for you.

          How is gardner not good enough to be a table-setter when his OBP was higher than Ichiro’s .345 to .310?

          • are you acussing me of making up stats?,… do the math yourself,.. if i made a math error, oint it out





            • jim, you are a lost cause. Debating baseball with you is like that capital One commercial when Jimmy Fallon says to the baby, “Do you want 50% percent more cash?” And Jim, i mean the baby says “NO!!!” lol

  15. here are 2 thoughts out of the box…

    1) you want a right handed bat in right, but are getting rid of the switch hitting swisher,….. move jeter to right,….. dont have to sign anyone,…..

    2) if the yankees make the world series this season,… lets us say they get 9 post season home games

    the stadium has 52,000 capacity including standing room

    at an average of 100 dollars per ticket, averaging everything including luxury boxes,….and that figure migtht be low,,….

    the yankees are lookinjg at a windfall over 52 million dollars

    concession and souvenior sales, as well as memorbilia sales for the world series, should cover overhead for the 9 games

    with 52 million, the yankees can pay the luxury tax the are politicking that they dont want to pay,.. and have money left over to sign both swisher and ichiro,.. and probably get back to the world series in 2013 and make another 52 million dollar windfall

    so take the 189 million dollar limit with a grain of salt

    it is all politiocking through the media

    • opps, maybe i dids the math wrong,….. lol,…. 5.2 million,…..

    • Jim, the Yankees have it in their budget every year to make the playoffs. They expect to make it and expect to earn the extra income that goes with it. Winning the WS this yr won’t change their minds from slicing payroll.







        • I have no idea how the Yanks “rubs it budget”? Oh but you do? Haa! And you’ve been warned for the last time about your excessive use of ALL CAPS.


            • The team has made the playoffs 17 of the last 18 years! Do you think they are shocked every year when they make it and say wow, look at all this money. they spend extra every year TO make the playoffs because of that extra revenue.

              • why dont you get a job, like in the wall street movie, as a cleaning mman at yanbkee corpiorate,.. and get copies of their private financial reports,… and release them to trhe public

                189 m you kidding me,…… they make that in their sleep

                how ever it would be bad planning to plan on so many home playoff games to make it or break it,….

                189 million team payroll is a bs number

                if they are cutting it that close,.. they have severe problems financially

                like i proved the other week,.. ther yankees can buy a bottle of poland spring for 3 cents,.. and sell it for 5 dollars

                you really think they are cutting it that close as to poayroll?

                • Jim2244…
                  Sorry to have everyone picking on you, I had that with one person. Don’t let it get to you, we all have our own way of looking at things. I think if you really believe in what you say, say it. Most of the guys here may or may not agree with you but so what. it does gives us something to talk about, right?
                  I respect your right to say that which you believe to be right, I may not agree but, that’s life. 🙂

            • every silver lining has a touich oif grey,……the reats of the gamne, came up big late,…..
              i’m sory you fell the yankees cant do it
              you have no faith

          • Fish – it’s OK if Jim uses all caps , if it is truly representing the volume of the words if spoken.

            Jim – are you shouting all those words that you have capitalized?

  16. no wait, i did it right, mulply by 9

  17. if the yankees get to the world series, and win it, and play in 9 post season home games,………they should have enough of a windfall to cover what they need to, anbd simply blow off the 189 million self imposed cap

    this should give players extra incentiveto stay focused now,….. they got a potnetial 29 total games left, if they have to nplay the one game playoff,…..

    just stay focused,… your regular routine,.. each and every player, just for 28/29 more games, and everything will fall nicely into place to keep the team intact

  18. All that was a lesson in making stats look real good for anyone and projecting something one knows little about…how to play baseball! Using stats of years past to project the future is not a good thing to do unless you have a time traveler machine.
    History says Itchy and Jeter are do for a fall, of course they (and I) said that last year they will both be about 39 years old. Neather one is fast anymore, although Itchy is still as fast+ as most guys. As for Jeter playing RF, don’t make me laugh, no way would he ever move to RF at this time of his career.The reasons are many but, can he play the out field as well or better than Swisher…not on your life! Even though Jeter is a great athlete he has very old legs. His legs are use to stop and start quickly moving around the infield. Not the long runs two or more times an inning.
    Just a thought of mine, take it for what it is worth…what ever!

    • Jim – using historical data and trends ARE the correct way to forecast future performance. Some people have been writing off Jeter for years “do for a fall”…….and each year they are embarrassed and have to make excuses. They should go post on BFU – Boston Fans Unite.

  19. gardner was 27 at the begininbg of the 2011 season, turned 28 in season,….

    in 1987 tim taines was 27 at the begining of the season, turned 28 in season,…

    in 1987 raines batted 330, with 175 hits and 123 runs and 68 rbi, with 90 walks, and 50 stloen bases

    in 1987 raines had a run or rbi in 97 games,….in 139 games, all with 2 or more plate appearances

    97/139 = 69.78%

    all from the left field position

    thats a quality player,……..

    a lot of people are talking on here like gardner is a great player

    tim rainmes is not even in the hall of fame,.. if he isnt a great player,.. what the heck is gardner?

    i’ll tell you,.. he is a bench/platoon player,.. that got a shot in 2011 , 56 games in the one hole, and the rest at the 8 or 9,.. playing in what 157 total games AND FAILED


  20. i dont agree,.. players contracts are based a lot on what they did in the last 3 seasons,.. thats is in fact what aribitration does,.. they average everything up, and see where you stand to the top 5 players at your position, see what they are making, and come up with a number

    if you want to say the abitratiois wrong go ahead

    but dont attack me for using the same kind of things to evaluate what is goling on

    i did not go way back in time,.. neither did i do the analysis to make anbyone look good or bad

    whedn i started the run and rbi analysis, i did it with an open mind, not knowing how the numbers were going to turn out

  21. the goal here is to win multiople world series, and do it fast,……2012, and 2013,….. the windfall of cash from postseason games,…… will be so huge,….. that the yankees wont have to worry about luxury tax

    if we win it this year,.. that buys us next season with ichiro and swisher,… ichiro and swisher may boh take a 2 year deal,…. if they win the world series this yerar,.. and then if the yabnkees repeat next year,.. in 2014,….. massive amounts of cash will be their to decide what to do with granderson, cano, and jeter,….
    gardner not an unretrictred til after the 2014 season

    of course you keep gardner for now

    but you go for the world series now and 2013,.. by keeping swisher, and starting ichiro in left , batting in the 2 hole,..

    see how it works

  22. that is why you have to win it now,…. back to back, 202 and 2013,.. be default of winning the world series back to back,… that opens up the bank ,……

    this team is ready to roll right now

    you shouldnt mess around with gardner , unless ichiro gets hurt

  23. liosten, kit is the yankees company itrself that has made this an issue, buy coming out publically with the 189 million dollar number,.. it was nort the fans nor the media

    we are left to think if the salary was 190 million, they would be l,osing 1 million on the year, no propfit
    thats what we are left to think


    then for peopl;e to say they are counting on 9 home post season games to just turn a profit,.. even with a 189 million dsollar player payroll,.. is MORE TOTAL CRAP



    • There are interesting points for the open minded to ponder Jim.

      1. Why do the Yankees love to publicize their budget constraints?
      2.) When they construct their Sales Revenue estimates do they include the playoff revenues or not?
      3. Why does CashMan knock his own players during what should be private contract negotiations?

      • 1.)They could be bluffing, or they could be letting the whiny, self entitled fanbase know ahead of time so they don’t throw a fit like a teenage girl.
        2.)I would guess it’s part of their projections, but they plan both ways. The budget isn’t *just* to spend less, it’s to get a huge (~50M) rebate AND get the future luxury tax back down to 15%.
        3. ) You might want to talk to Levine about that TWasperino…. i know you like to blame Cashman for everything from player development to the rising tides in the South Pacific, but you’re a little misdirected 🙂

    • Jim2244…
      The $189 mil. is the max they can spend or they get taxed (big time) buy MLB. The tax money goes to other teams to use as they see fit. Yankees have said they are not going to pay other teams to help beat the Yankees. That is why they want to get to the $189 mil. goal. for 2014. Then they can spend what ever they want to.


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